1 00:00:11,299 --> 00:00:09,530 on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:11,309 with famous near-death experience 3 00:00:17,750 --> 00:00:14,250 researcher dr. Raymond moody about his 4 00:00:19,910 --> 00:00:17,760 recent memoir paranormal are we limited 5 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:19,920 just by a system of logic or is there 6 00:00:25,370 --> 00:00:21,800 some in some way we are fundamentally 7 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:25,380 unable to know certain things in this 8 00:00:29,630 --> 00:00:26,849 existence that we're in 9 00:00:31,580 --> 00:00:29,640 what a wonderful distinction as to the 10 00:00:37,580 --> 00:00:31,590 second part of your question whether 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:37,590 there is some some kind of unknowability 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:41,010 and the world that you know that we are 13 00:00:46,430 --> 00:00:43,370 just constitutionally unable to 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:46,440 apprehend certain things obviously I 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:49,050 don't know you know by definition you 16 00:00:54,319 --> 00:00:51,570 wouldn't be able to know that it's what 17 00:00:57,439 --> 00:00:54,329 I think that the first worthy question 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:00:57,449 was kind of is is our logic limiting us 19 00:01:05,450 --> 00:01:02,730 in some fundamental way and I think it 20 00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:05,460 is Alex and I'm I think just from our 21 00:01:11,929 --> 00:01:08,159 two conversations together I think I can 22 00:01:15,499 --> 00:01:11,939 prove it to you what I can show is that 23 00:01:18,649 --> 00:01:15,509 these these misconceptions create a kind 24 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:18,659 of collective cognitive deficit in 25 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:21,930 people that is hidden because everybody 26 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:24,630 has it right if everybody has it there's 27 00:01:30,260 --> 00:01:27,030 no way that people have is detecting it 28 00:01:32,630 --> 00:01:30,270 and the way that this manifest itself is 29 00:01:34,359 --> 00:01:32,640 that when people hear a sentence like 30 00:01:37,609 --> 00:01:34,369 there is life after death and 31 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:37,619 unthinkingly they look at that they 32 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:39,270 treat that just like a literal 33 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:41,070 meaningful true or false proposition 34 00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:44,430 right and so they try to process it by 35 00:01:50,780 --> 00:01:47,369 the rules of Aristotelian logic they're 36 00:02:02,390 --> 00:01:50,790 their minds go berserk stay with us for 37 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:04,710 welcome to skeptical where we explore 38 00:02:08,430 --> 00:02:06,340 controversial science with leading 39 00:02:10,350 --> 00:02:08,440 researchers thinkers and their critics 40 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:10,360 I'm your host Aleksic Harrison on this 41 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:13,030 episode I speak with dr. Raymond Moody 42 00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:15,130 dr. moody of course is one of the best 43 00:02:19,470 --> 00:02:17,350 known near-death experience researchers 44 00:02:21,060 --> 00:02:19,480 and the person who pioneered the field 45 00:02:23,340 --> 00:02:21,070 and coined the term near-death 46 00:02:26,430 --> 00:02:23,350 experience it's always a great pleasure 47 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:26,440 to talk to dr. Mitty and it's always a 48 00:02:31,710 --> 00:02:29,020 bit of a challenge he always seems a bit 49 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:31,720 of an enigma a bit hard to pin down or 50 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:33,940 maybe hard to interpret at times but 51 00:02:37,950 --> 00:02:35,860 it's certainly a pleasure to talk to him 52 00:02:40,890 --> 00:02:37,960 and their conversations that always 53 00:02:43,260 --> 00:02:40,900 leave me thinking for days afterwards 54 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:43,270 who can ask for more than that here's my 55 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:46,450 interview with dr. Raymond moody today 56 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:48,970 we welcome dr. Raymond moody - skeptic 57 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:53,050 Oh in 1975 psychiatrist and professor of 58 00:02:58,220 --> 00:02:55,090 philosophy dr. Raymond Moody published 59 00:03:01,230 --> 00:02:58,230 life after life in coined the term 60 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:01,240 near-death experience and I guess it's 61 00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:04,660 fair to say the world changed a little 62 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:06,300 bit I don't think that's an exaggeration 63 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:09,130 you know it's hard to measure the full 64 00:03:15,690 --> 00:03:13,090 impact of dr. Moody's work on medicine 65 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:15,700 on science religion and our culture as a 66 00:03:21,210 --> 00:03:17,950 whole but it's certainly clear that this 67 00:03:23,820 --> 00:03:21,220 groundbreaking research has continued to 68 00:03:26,699 --> 00:03:23,830 challenge our understanding of the 69 00:03:28,530 --> 00:03:26,709 deepest questions that we all have that 70 00:03:30,750 --> 00:03:28,540 keep us up at two o'clock in the morning 71 00:03:32,430 --> 00:03:30,760 dr. moody it's a great pleasure to have 72 00:03:35,610 --> 00:03:32,440 you on skeptic oh thanks so much for 73 00:03:38,310 --> 00:03:35,620 joining me well I'm just great I'm just 74 00:03:41,009 --> 00:03:38,320 so happy to be with you today Alex this 75 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:41,019 is I can already tell this it's gonna be 76 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:44,769 fun well I feel quite fortunate to be 77 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:46,930 able to interview you for a second time 78 00:03:52,370 --> 00:03:49,690 here and and as particularly on this 79 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:52,380 book you've written a memoir titled 80 00:03:59,280 --> 00:03:55,930 paranormal my life in pursuit of the 81 00:04:02,370 --> 00:03:59,290 afterlife and I think it's quite an 82 00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:02,380 amazing and brave undertaking that 83 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:04,060 you've you've kind of taken us through 84 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:05,530 here and this journey you know and that 85 00:04:09,809 --> 00:04:07,240 was really I guess the first question 86 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:09,819 that I had for you dr. Mindy you know 87 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:12,100 clearly you've been somebody who's been 88 00:04:15,540 --> 00:04:12,370 in the 89 00:04:17,699 --> 00:04:15,550 public eye for a long time you've seen 90 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:17,709 it done it every TV show you can imagine 91 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:20,320 every radio show you've done all that 92 00:04:24,659 --> 00:04:22,750 but this had to be something a little 93 00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:24,669 bit different what has it been like for 94 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:28,300 me being that open and that out there in 95 00:04:34,110 --> 00:04:30,370 terms of telling people about your whole 96 00:04:35,969 --> 00:04:34,120 life well you know something Alex I'll 97 00:04:37,980 --> 00:04:35,979 tell you the truth and you know as you 98 00:04:41,010 --> 00:04:37,990 know I'm a psychiatrist and not only 99 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:41,020 that I was a forensic psychiatrist for a 100 00:04:45,379 --> 00:04:43,960 while in a maximum-security unit for the 101 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:45,389 criminally insane 102 00:04:53,820 --> 00:04:49,900 and I've lived in a lot of different set 103 00:04:56,969 --> 00:04:53,830 of circumstances and so on and you know 104 00:04:59,040 --> 00:04:56,979 and what I really can't come to see is 105 00:05:02,760 --> 00:04:59,050 that everybody has about the same 106 00:05:05,940 --> 00:05:02,770 secrets you know I mean plus the 107 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:05,950 secret-keeping is an intrinsically 108 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:15,490 dysphoric experience and you know I I've 109 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:17,800 been through some rough spots I never 110 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:21,130 did think about writing my memoirs I was 111 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:23,080 thinking you know what a bore you know 112 00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:27,490 for me none I had I had a PhD in 113 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:34,320 philosophy when I was 24 years old and 114 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:37,450 that shows you what a boring person and 115 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:39,370 I am I mean seriously I'm talking 116 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:43,210 straight here because from my age of 67 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:45,190 I could realize realize there's 118 00:05:49,589 --> 00:05:47,650 something terribly wrong about somebody 119 00:05:52,980 --> 00:05:49,599 who would have their PhD when they were 120 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:52,990 in philosophy when they were 24 you know 121 00:05:58,620 --> 00:05:55,510 really because I really kind of read 122 00:06:00,390 --> 00:05:58,630 that differently in reading your about 123 00:06:02,670 --> 00:06:00,400 your childhood and your upbringing which 124 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:02,680 I all found very fascinating and kind of 125 00:06:08,610 --> 00:06:06,130 put together this amazing mosaic that 126 00:06:10,830 --> 00:06:08,620 it's remarkable how people's lives do 127 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:10,840 seem to fit together for a purpose but 128 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:13,330 you know certainly you were a smart kid 129 00:06:17,219 --> 00:06:14,530 I mean that's one of the things that 130 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:17,229 came through and in that you know I 131 00:06:21,750 --> 00:06:19,270 think it speaks out to other people 132 00:06:24,180 --> 00:06:21,760 other kids who maybe experience that 133 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:24,190 that they're excelling in all these ways 134 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:26,110 that our society says you're 135 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:28,180 supposed to excel and in other ways 136 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:31,690 there it's really kind of isolating them 137 00:06:36,660 --> 00:06:33,130 well you know what do you think about 138 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:36,670 that what what did that was and I you 139 00:06:43,970 --> 00:06:39,010 know as I look back Alex I'm not sure I 140 00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:43,980 mean were people isolating me or was i 141 00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:47,440 isolating myself you know in the sense 142 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:51,550 that I mean I have accepted a few years 143 00:06:57,390 --> 00:06:54,850 ago this diagnosis I was given 20 years 144 00:07:00,210 --> 00:06:57,400 ago but it took me a long time to sort 145 00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:00,220 of see that it's right is of Asperger's 146 00:07:06,860 --> 00:07:04,720 syndrome and I know from my reading on 147 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:06,870 that that I really do fit that that 148 00:07:15,030 --> 00:07:10,090 social interactions have never been my 149 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:15,040 forte I I was I remember when I was in 150 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:18,250 the fourth grade my mom and dad found 151 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:20,380 out that I had been slipping in some 152 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:22,810 subjects in school but when they 153 00:07:31,860 --> 00:07:26,530 inquired into the reason it was that I 154 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:31,870 had been reading my father's physics 155 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:35,530 textbook from college and taking notes 156 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:39,640 and so on and I was just always I always 157 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:42,610 have followed what drives my curiosity I 158 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:45,010 can't not do it 159 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:47,710 whether it's something that you know 160 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:49,810 society says we shouldn't investigate 161 00:07:59,010 --> 00:07:54,400 you know or if just whatever draws my 162 00:08:00,750 --> 00:07:59,020 curiosity but another thing is um and my 163 00:08:03,050 --> 00:08:00,760 profession the hard thing for me is I 164 00:08:06,390 --> 00:08:03,060 don't want to get mixed up with 165 00:08:08,730 --> 00:08:06,400 parapsychologist because I think that is 166 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:08,740 just an utter pseudoscience for somebody 167 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:12,190 to say in the year you know 2012 that 168 00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:15,340 that we can get scientific evidence of 169 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:19,780 life after death for example really you 170 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:21,850 know mean that's just that almost as 171 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:25,570 academic misconduct in my opinion this I 172 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:30,130 mean you know not all problems are going 173 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:32,950 to be resolvable by science and I think 174 00:08:38,550 --> 00:08:35,890 especially with some issue like life 175 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:38,560 after death that is that is not yet as 176 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:38,910 fun 177 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:43,170 to say question there's ant um but that 178 00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:45,210 doesn't mean we can't investigate it I 179 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:48,750 think that you know philosophy is still 180 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:50,850 uh it's a discipline that's very 181 00:08:56,510 --> 00:08:52,560 important even though we've kind of 182 00:08:58,430 --> 00:08:56,520 brushed it aside in the 21st century 183 00:09:00,410 --> 00:08:58,440 well dr. moody you're gonna have to back 184 00:09:02,270 --> 00:09:00,420 up for a minute because I think one of 185 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:02,280 the interesting threads that weaves 186 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:04,770 through this book and maybe your life is 187 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:08,340 this you like to play these edges and 188 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:10,110 you play them really well and you like 189 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:12,630 to kind of provoke people a little bit 190 00:09:16,490 --> 00:09:14,370 but I think that's good but one of the 191 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:16,500 edges is this kind of paradox you draw 192 00:09:21,890 --> 00:09:19,500 between a philosophical approach but 193 00:09:24,470 --> 00:09:21,900 then you also have this scientific bent 194 00:09:27,490 --> 00:09:24,480 this medical bent maybe you need to back 195 00:09:31,430 --> 00:09:27,500 up and tell people why you think that 196 00:09:34,190 --> 00:09:31,440 philosophical approach is necessary or 197 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:34,200 how it gets at these questions that 198 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:37,290 can't get a straight yes or no this way 199 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:39,030 that way answer why does that intrigue 200 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:41,610 you so much perfect well see that's what 201 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:44,370 what is most interested me in my life 202 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:48,330 and things I'm curious about is the big 203 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:50,610 questions questions that seem really 204 00:09:56,180 --> 00:09:53,010 pressing in a wireman but just occur to 205 00:09:58,430 --> 00:09:56,190 you naturally for example like what size 206 00:10:01,760 --> 00:09:58,440 and shape is this thing that we're in 207 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:01,770 called the universe well what you tend 208 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:03,690 to do in your mind is you you think 209 00:10:08,510 --> 00:10:06,180 about both possibilities one is well 210 00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:08,520 does it end in a wall so your mind goes 211 00:10:12,890 --> 00:10:10,920 out to the wall but then suddenly think 212 00:10:16,220 --> 00:10:12,900 oh my goodness doesn't there have to be 213 00:10:20,270 --> 00:10:16,230 something on the other side of a wall so 214 00:10:23,420 --> 00:10:20,280 that the that route seems unintelligible 215 00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:23,430 but some are lowly if you think of what 216 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:25,440 seems to be the other possible route 217 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:27,840 that it goes on and on and on forever 218 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:31,770 then that's unintelligible - so what 219 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:33,570 really interests me are big questions 220 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:36,740 that are unintelligible and that is what 221 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:39,510 philosophy is all about all the big 222 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:42,510 questions originated as philosophical 223 00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:45,560 questions and then over the centuries 224 00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:49,860 following the ancient Greeks as people 225 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:52,680 begin to figure out ways to actually 226 00:10:57,650 --> 00:10:55,680 we settle these questions as opposed to 227 00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:57,660 just sort of think about them and reason 228 00:11:04,940 --> 00:11:02,160 about them and Galileo for example that 229 00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:04,950 the the standard position was that a 230 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:07,710 heavier object will fall down faster 231 00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:12,690 than a lighter one and so Galileo just 232 00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:14,820 built some inclined planes and rolled 233 00:11:19,850 --> 00:11:17,430 balls of various weights down and 234 00:11:23,150 --> 00:11:19,860 anybody he just looked could see that 235 00:11:25,630 --> 00:11:23,160 they went down at the same the same 236 00:11:27,889 --> 00:11:25,640 speed and so what I'm talking about is a 237 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:27,899 question like life after death the 238 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:31,200 question is not really how can we set up 239 00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:33,930 some experiment to prove it which is the 240 00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:37,470 kind of a parapsychological point of 241 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:39,660 view but one of the name of god doesn't 242 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:44,180 mean I mean there's no there's no clear 243 00:11:50,269 --> 00:11:48,060 concept there see you've been playing 244 00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:50,279 around for a number of years with this 245 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:54,000 idea that we need a new system of logic 246 00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,310 but you know I can never wrap my arms 247 00:12:00,260 --> 00:11:58,320 around what you mean by that can you 248 00:12:03,890 --> 00:12:00,270 maybe fill us in where are you driving 249 00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:03,900 towards with that idea that we know well 250 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:07,440 then you know I would be happy to send 251 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:10,310 you a complimentary copy of my 252 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:13,980 manuscript if you would care to look at 253 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:17,910 it and comment but then to get to your 254 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:19,770 question about what it's all about I 255 00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:23,510 think and I have worked out the logic of 256 00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:26,580 unintelligibility Alex I really do you 257 00:12:32,930 --> 00:12:30,420 know we you know you know that logic is 258 00:12:36,910 --> 00:12:32,940 we have it as a binary code right true 259 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:36,920 or false and that it's predicated on 260 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:39,770 propositions of literal meanings and 261 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:44,370 that that has a historical development 262 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:48,810 it's dark started about 550 BC roughly 263 00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:51,480 and went through the next hundred plus 264 00:13:00,890 --> 00:12:55,980 years until Aristotle codified pretty 265 00:13:03,860 --> 00:13:00,900 much the logic we have but but in that 266 00:13:06,670 --> 00:13:03,870 in that process something got left out 267 00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:06,680 and primarily because of 268 00:13:13,689 --> 00:13:09,029 Aristotle's kind of a severely 269 00:13:18,170 --> 00:13:13,699 obsessional is it current apparently was 270 00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,180 personality because Plato for example 271 00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:20,399 had been working here Plato understood 272 00:13:24,769 --> 00:13:22,230 the truth false dichotomy a matter of 273 00:13:30,590 --> 00:13:24,779 fact he's the one who finally worked it 274 00:13:33,019 --> 00:13:30,600 out and and and the idea that to search 275 00:13:35,949 --> 00:13:33,029 for knowledge we reside in the literal 276 00:13:40,009 --> 00:13:35,959 domain of language with meaningful 277 00:13:42,309 --> 00:13:40,019 propositions but Plato also realized 278 00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:42,319 that there was a third factor namely 279 00:13:50,749 --> 00:13:47,459 unintelligibility or nonsense and so 280 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:50,759 what I have done Alex and I'm confident 281 00:13:55,639 --> 00:13:52,889 in saying this because my colleagues 282 00:13:57,949 --> 00:13:55,649 have read this and say I've done it if 283 00:14:01,490 --> 00:13:57,959 then I've worked out the logic of 284 00:14:04,009 --> 00:14:01,500 nonsense and therefore since the 285 00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,019 sentence like there is life after death 286 00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:06,480 is nonsense right it's a 287 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:09,120 self-contradiction well it's funny isn't 288 00:14:15,019 --> 00:14:11,910 the title of your most famous book life 289 00:14:16,460 --> 00:14:15,029 after life yeah is an example I mean 290 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:16,470 you're kind of I almost feel like you're 291 00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:18,420 kind of playing with us in a way there 292 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,670 and this pointing out that there's this 293 00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:22,800 kind not not in it not in a I don't mean 294 00:14:27,439 --> 00:14:25,740 it in a in a mean way or that but just 295 00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:27,449 that you're playing with the words 296 00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:29,399 you're playing with the way that we use 297 00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:31,199 them in a way that kind of points out 298 00:14:36,259 --> 00:14:33,720 the embedded contradiction and you know 299 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:36,269 you can't have life after life it's yeah 300 00:14:43,999 --> 00:14:39,870 yeah yeah exactly and you see to me the 301 00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:44,009 question is important and and because it 302 00:14:54,009 --> 00:14:48,120 is important then what we are obligated 303 00:14:57,559 --> 00:14:54,019 to do is to apply the strictest 304 00:15:00,860 --> 00:14:57,569 reasoning we can to it I mean it is not 305 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:00,870 going to make people feel good for a few 306 00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:04,290 moments to hear the charismatic speaker 307 00:15:08,119 --> 00:15:06,120 you know assure them that this is 308 00:15:12,369 --> 00:15:08,129 evidence of life after death but you 309 00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:12,379 don't carry that with you it's the dance 310 00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:16,800 resurfaces it's self-deception so this 311 00:15:20,390 --> 00:15:18,720 is you know this is I think one of the 312 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:20,400 most important questions I think 313 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:23,910 distance and therefore it deserves it 314 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:27,050 real rigor and and thinking it through 315 00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:29,910 you know I wonder though is it is it the 316 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:32,310 rigor and the logic that we're missing 317 00:15:41,050 --> 00:15:36,960 or is there something fundamental to our 318 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:41,060 experience in this body in this world 319 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:44,150 that prevents us from maybe 320 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:46,230 understanding things differently and I 321 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:48,810 say that not to be too abstract but that 322 00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:51,930 seems to be part of the message that you 323 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,600 will that we get back from the stories 324 00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:55,920 that you've collected and other 325 00:16:00,050 --> 00:15:57,870 near-death experience researchers have 326 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:00,060 as well as you know from a variety of 327 00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:02,370 spiritual experiences that you also have 328 00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:04,350 experienced with people come back and 329 00:16:13,220 --> 00:16:08,390 say I had a knowing that I'm unable to 330 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:13,230 really bring back and internalize are we 331 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:15,810 limited just by a system of logic or is 332 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:17,370 there some in some way we are 333 00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:20,010 fundamentally unable to know certain 334 00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:23,280 things in this existence that we're in 335 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:28,860 what a wonderful distinction and as to 336 00:16:36,950 --> 00:16:30,930 the second part of your question whether 337 00:16:39,890 --> 00:16:36,960 there is some some kind of unknowability 338 00:16:42,730 --> 00:16:39,900 in the world that you know this so that 339 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:42,740 we are just constitutionally unable to 340 00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:45,810 actually hand certain things obviously I 341 00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,420 don't know you know by definition you 342 00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:50,880 wouldn't be able to know that it's not 343 00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:55,260 but I think that the first worthy 344 00:17:01,900 --> 00:16:57,720 question was kind of is is our logic 345 00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:01,910 limiting us in some fundamental way and 346 00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:06,540 I think it is Alex and I'm I think just 347 00:17:11,449 --> 00:17:08,700 from our two conversations together I 348 00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:11,459 think I can prove it to you that'd be 349 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:13,260 real interesting I'd love for you to 350 00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:15,690 take a few minutes and dig into this 351 00:17:20,030 --> 00:17:18,300 because it's really played on my mind if 352 00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:20,040 what you're really getting at here so 353 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:24,959 all right first of all nonsense that 354 00:17:31,290 --> 00:17:27,370 word is a pejorative term 355 00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:31,300 and in not just the United States but 356 00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:34,720 I've traveled over a lot of the world in 357 00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:37,270 the many decades have been working on 358 00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:40,630 this my interest in logic and philosophy 359 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:46,600 of language but there seems to be this 360 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:50,320 very widespread opinion of people that 361 00:17:58,860 --> 00:17:54,010 therefore for total misconceptions about 362 00:18:02,220 --> 00:17:58,870 what nonsense is first of all people say 363 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:02,230 most people think that nonsense is 364 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:05,530 something purely bad and undesirable 365 00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:08,200 like it's been terribly bad that 366 00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,160 necessarily a negative quantity secondly 367 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:14,400 that is sociated somehow with 368 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:19,050 non-existence and non-being and chaos 369 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:23,230 this is a very common image as a 370 00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:25,210 candidate over 40 years of experience 371 00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:28,000 with this that people come up when they 372 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:29,830 think with when they come to thinking 373 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:33,040 about nonsense then xxx that people 374 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:36,970 confuse nonsense with falsehood they 375 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:39,490 think nonsense is the same as false that 376 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:41,620 except maybe like with an exclamation 377 00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:44,710 point or something and fourthly that 378 00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:49,020 that nonsense is something inherently 379 00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:52,960 unfathomable and beyond logic and reason 380 00:19:04,680 --> 00:18:58,000 and those opinions are maintained Alex 381 00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:04,690 with an almost visceral reflex by people 382 00:19:09,980 --> 00:19:06,910 you can just see them cringe when they 383 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:09,990 you tell them that you know you're 384 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:12,310 investigating the subject of nonsense 385 00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:15,550 for example well anyway what and 386 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:17,980 therefore what I can show is that these 387 00:19:24,690 --> 00:19:21,310 these misconceptions create a kind of 388 00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:24,700 collective cognitive deficit in people 389 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:28,120 that is hidden because everybody has it 390 00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:30,670 right if everybody has it there's no way 391 00:19:36,370 --> 00:19:33,340 that people have a detecting it and the 392 00:19:40,450 --> 00:19:36,380 way that this manifests itself is 393 00:19:42,610 --> 00:19:40,460 one way is that when people hear a 394 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:42,620 sentence like there is life after death 395 00:19:47,890 --> 00:19:46,250 and unthinkingly they look at that they 396 00:19:50,049 --> 00:19:47,900 treat that just like a literal 397 00:19:53,049 --> 00:19:50,059 meaningful true or false proposition 398 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:53,059 right and so they try to process it by 399 00:19:58,810 --> 00:19:56,030 the rules of Aristotelian logic there 400 00:20:00,820 --> 00:19:58,820 their minds go berserk as you and I've 401 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:00,830 seen many times probably know many 402 00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:03,049 people whose minds have gone berserk 403 00:20:12,399 --> 00:20:09,380 over this time the topic act now what 404 00:20:15,159 --> 00:20:12,409 what I do is I start with the simple 405 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:15,169 dictionary definition of to correct all 406 00:20:19,810 --> 00:20:17,630 this I start with a simple definite 407 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:19,820 dictionary definition of nonsense 408 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:22,370 nonsense is language that is 409 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:24,890 unintelligible due to lack of meaning 410 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:27,650 then I set up the simple criterion for 411 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:30,470 you know disputed examples for example 412 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:33,289 what if if one person says oh it's 413 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:35,330 nonsense and some other person says no 414 00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:38,570 it makes perfect sense to me so the way 415 00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:41,750 I but you want to choose only now bona 416 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:45,100 fide examples to set up the theory and 417 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:48,710 the way I do it is I distinguish between 418 00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:53,090 um deliberate nonsense Allah 419 00:20:58,899 --> 00:20:55,460 Lewis Carroll and dr. Seuss and shel 420 00:21:02,320 --> 00:20:58,909 silverstein and Edward Lear and so on 421 00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:02,330 and involuntary nonsense went for 422 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:06,470 example a patient is delirious and 423 00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:07,970 talking out of their heads or 424 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:11,840 schizophrenic people who use neologisms 425 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:17,450 made-up meaningless words or people who 426 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:19,970 are under great stress for example even 427 00:21:24,370 --> 00:21:21,770 if they're not injured it will sometimes 428 00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,380 make them talk nonsense and and so our 429 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:26,960 people who incent toxicated with mercury 430 00:21:33,970 --> 00:21:30,289 for example or ethylene and so on and so 431 00:21:36,909 --> 00:21:33,980 on and so on and and so by choosing only 432 00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:36,919 examples of nonsense from the deliberate 433 00:21:44,049 --> 00:21:41,510 size you you remove the problem of 434 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:44,059 disputed examples but also then you 435 00:21:48,909 --> 00:21:46,610 might say well then it's only have to 436 00:21:51,009 --> 00:21:48,919 theory a nonsense because what about the 437 00:21:53,659 --> 00:21:51,019 involuntary 438 00:21:56,779 --> 00:21:53,669 nonsense well one of the amazing things 439 00:21:59,899 --> 00:21:56,789 I've discovered alex is that when people 440 00:22:03,080 --> 00:21:59,909 talk nonsense involuntarily like when 441 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:03,090 they're stressed or or psychotic or 442 00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:06,120 delirious the nonsense they talk has 443 00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:09,929 exactly the same patterns as we can find 444 00:22:18,049 --> 00:22:14,039 in the writings of nonsense writers so 445 00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:18,059 now once you do is you get a sort of 446 00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:20,460 collection of nonsense writings you 447 00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:22,169 quickly see there's all kinds of 448 00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:26,220 different patterns and types well in my 449 00:22:30,499 --> 00:22:28,590 work I've discovered over seventy 450 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:30,509 different types of nonsense 451 00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:33,690 for example twas brillig and the slithy 452 00:22:40,009 --> 00:22:36,600 Toves did gyre and gimble in the web all 453 00:22:42,919 --> 00:22:40,019 mimsy was where the Barrow goes and the 454 00:22:45,139 --> 00:22:42,929 mome Raths outgrabe that's obviously one 455 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:45,149 type of nonsense but listen to this one 456 00:22:50,389 --> 00:22:48,090 this is a wholly different type holiness 457 00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:50,399 breeds the best digital lipstick of 458 00:22:58,129 --> 00:22:55,919 spontaneity or a third one I'm not an 459 00:23:00,499 --> 00:22:58,139 actor but I play one on television or 460 00:23:02,889 --> 00:23:00,509 that cannibal we just ate was the last 461 00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:02,899 one around these cards those 462 00:23:08,509 --> 00:23:04,740 self-contradictions so I've identified 463 00:23:11,629 --> 00:23:08,519 over seventy different types and what it 464 00:23:16,369 --> 00:23:11,639 appears is that each of these different 465 00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:16,379 types of nonsense um is apparently 466 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:19,049 stimulates different type parts of the 467 00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:23,580 brain or that each each one is um is 468 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:25,230 distinguished by its own cognitive 469 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:28,470 effects and so on and then I go I've 470 00:23:34,869 --> 00:23:30,570 just made these amazing discoveries 471 00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:34,879 about what he'll of all kinds of wild 472 00:23:44,990 --> 00:23:37,980 psychological effects with nonsense 473 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:45,000 and so with this we have a very powerful 474 00:23:53,509 --> 00:23:50,610 tool for resolving a kind of situation 475 00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:53,519 that crops up just constantly I'm sure 476 00:23:57,860 --> 00:23:55,289 you see it if you keep up with the 477 00:24:02,180 --> 00:23:57,870 science literature I mean there's always 478 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:02,190 - the debate about whether some new idea 479 00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:03,260 is or isn't 480 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:06,590 nonsense right and and these can be very 481 00:24:12,370 --> 00:24:10,370 big I mean I heard this is I keep a 482 00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:12,380 running tally of these from the science 483 00:24:20,350 --> 00:24:16,510 journals and it's it's constant and so I 484 00:24:24,820 --> 00:24:20,360 thus far we've had no way of resolving 485 00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:24,830 these disputes but now we do because if 486 00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:27,830 you if somebody has less than two 487 00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:31,760 nonsense involuntarily it can match you 488 00:24:37,930 --> 00:24:34,640 see one of the patterns of deliberate 489 00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:37,940 nonsense and so that's a way of settling 490 00:24:42,669 --> 00:24:40,280 the dispute I hear ya and that's 491 00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:42,679 interesting I'm still not totally making 492 00:24:47,890 --> 00:24:45,860 the connection though between the 493 00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:47,900 logical component of it so I understand 494 00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:49,790 there's deliberate nonsense and there's 495 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:54,350 just we lapse into not okay yes I mean I 496 00:25:00,730 --> 00:24:56,450 don't know if you studied philosophy but 497 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:00,740 you know how and in philosophy this is 498 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:02,990 they'll talk about the logic of a 499 00:25:10,570 --> 00:25:05,570 concept or something so I'm talking here 500 00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:10,580 in that in terms of a set of rational 501 00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:14,799 principles that you can use to further 502 00:25:20,590 --> 00:25:17,929 enquiry on certain questions that have 503 00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:20,600 left been has been left unresolved and 504 00:25:26,530 --> 00:25:24,260 one of these is the question of life 505 00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:26,540 after death I can use that as a sample 506 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:36,520 people for example who had these 507 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:41,890 near-death experiences let me go back 508 00:25:47,289 --> 00:25:44,720 Alex and at this point you really will 509 00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:47,299 make include flipped off the deep end 510 00:25:54,430 --> 00:25:50,960 but let me go back in time to the 511 00:25:58,150 --> 00:25:54,440 presidency of Abraham Lincoln he came 512 00:26:01,360 --> 00:25:58,160 and Lincoln was at a solemn state 513 00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,370 ceremony I read this and Carl Sandburg's 514 00:26:06,970 --> 00:26:03,919 biography when I was a kid I don't 515 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:06,980 remember about what the ceremony was 516 00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:11,210 about but his part in the ceremony 517 00:26:16,450 --> 00:26:14,750 called for him to mount a horse and to 518 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:16,460 leave the horse 519 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:20,090 procession away from the scene and when 520 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:22,130 he did it's very solemn and he calmed up 521 00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:24,710 on the horse but the horse got its own 522 00:26:30,430 --> 00:26:27,680 back hoof caught and the stirrup and 523 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:30,440 what was bouncing around and the crowd 524 00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:33,170 was sort of shotgun - silenced I think 525 00:26:38,290 --> 00:26:35,990 mr. Lincoln in this you know just gosh 526 00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:38,300 awful predicament and everybody's kind 527 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:41,660 of embarrassed you know so Lincoln just 528 00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:44,360 very calmly looked down and at the horse 529 00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:47,840 and he said well if you're getting on 530 00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:51,940 I'm getting off now that's totally 531 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:55,670 nonsensical right and yet you've got to 532 00:27:05,050 --> 00:26:58,730 admit it nonetheless brings up a very 533 00:27:08,050 --> 00:27:05,060 vivid image of motion in your mind okay 534 00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:08,060 now if we had more time I could read you 535 00:27:14,740 --> 00:27:11,630 some longer poems written by nonsense 536 00:27:17,410 --> 00:27:14,750 poet the cat poets that capture this the 537 00:27:20,050 --> 00:27:17,420 same effect that since we're all 538 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:20,060 familiar with the format of a travel 539 00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:22,970 narrative we know from childhood how its 540 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:24,980 laid out and what you're supposed to do 541 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:27,890 you see it's possible therefore to lay 542 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:30,290 down a layer of nonsense over the 543 00:27:37,060 --> 00:27:33,770 framework of a travel narrative and when 544 00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:37,070 you do it gives you the mental effect of 545 00:27:43,270 --> 00:27:39,950 motion even when no such motion is 546 00:27:45,820 --> 00:27:43,280 possible except in two words now how 547 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:45,830 does this relate for example to the 548 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:48,170 investigation of near-death experiences 549 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:53,450 well what people tell us who have 550 00:27:58,300 --> 00:27:55,490 near-death experiences is that number 551 00:28:02,860 --> 00:27:58,310 one this experience did not play take 552 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:02,870 place in time a wonderful woman not said 553 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:06,050 to me Raymond you could say that my 554 00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:09,260 experience took 10,000 years or you 555 00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:12,260 could say that it took one second and it 556 00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:14,300 wouldn't matter which way you said it so 557 00:28:20,350 --> 00:28:16,540 that's how people talk that this is a 558 00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:20,360 this is a timeless experience they also 559 00:28:27,130 --> 00:28:25,190 tell us that it's not in space and that 560 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:27,140 there are no words for and yet one day 561 00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:30,290 when they do relate it this is 562 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:33,260 they related they say I got out of my 563 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:35,450 body I went through a tunnel into a 564 00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:38,810 light I met my deceased relatives I saw 565 00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:42,440 my life pads and review I returned to my 566 00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:44,720 body and came back to life 567 00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:46,880 that's a travel man right and I see 568 00:28:51,610 --> 00:28:48,440 where you're going both those statements 569 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:51,620 are nonsensical inside of our logic 570 00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:54,410 inside of our language but let me tie it 571 00:28:58,210 --> 00:28:56,840 back to that this is I I want you to 572 00:29:01,000 --> 00:28:58,220 stay right on that point but let me tie 573 00:29:03,730 --> 00:29:01,010 it back to a story that you paint in the 574 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:03,740 book paranormal about your encounter 575 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:06,770 with Elisabeth kubler-ross because here 576 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:09,530 it was that just as you described it in 577 00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:11,410 the book the philosopher you 578 00:29:18,010 --> 00:29:14,630 encountering the the researcher in the 579 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:18,020 advocate the person of medicine but also 580 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:20,450 an advocate you know and she says to you 581 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:22,370 Graeme and what are you talking about 582 00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:24,410 how can you draw this distinction that 583 00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:26,990 you you aren't convinced that this is 584 00:29:31,210 --> 00:29:28,910 scientific eleven evidence of life after 585 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:31,220 death and she uses the analogy that I 586 00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:32,690 think was really a good one - that 587 00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:34,190 sticks in my mind it is more kind of 588 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:36,260 ground of where I'm at she said when the 589 00:29:41,470 --> 00:29:39,320 first European explorers went over and 590 00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:41,480 discovered North America well the first 591 00:29:44,890 --> 00:29:43,190 one can come back and give you a story 592 00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:44,900 and you can say well that's one guy but 593 00:29:48,670 --> 00:29:46,400 when two three four or five when a 594 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:48,680 hundred people come back and we look at 595 00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:50,090 those stories and we start dying 596 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:53,870 together don't we in fact have don't we 597 00:30:00,640 --> 00:29:56,810 overcome those barriers that we have in 598 00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:00,650 logic or language well you know that is 599 00:30:08,110 --> 00:30:03,080 a very good point that is a good point 600 00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,120 especially Alex that's in recent months 601 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:11,120 I feel do you know about the case of 602 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:13,730 urban Alexandra's yes we actually 603 00:30:19,270 --> 00:30:15,170 interviewed him on the show is very 604 00:30:25,150 --> 00:30:19,280 interesting guy right yeah now I don't 605 00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:25,160 know about you but I it's very hard to 606 00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:27,830 figure out what language to bring to it 607 00:30:35,770 --> 00:30:32,030 absolutely man I'm the speck on a 608 00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:35,780 butterfly I mean this is this is poetry 609 00:30:41,410 --> 00:30:39,200 this is beyond its the scientific I 610 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:41,420 understand what you mean yeah well yes 611 00:30:47,290 --> 00:30:43,490 and also I mean I'm 612 00:30:50,140 --> 00:30:47,300 here about the the fact that isn't the 613 00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:50,150 severity of his medical condition from 614 00:30:54,010 --> 00:30:52,340 my understanding pretty much rules out 615 00:30:57,610 --> 00:30:54,020 but he could have been conscious during 616 00:31:00,970 --> 00:30:57,620 that period by what we understand the 617 00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:00,980 brain right now and also that he met a 618 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:04,760 sister he didn't know he had I mean this 619 00:31:10,570 --> 00:31:07,160 is getting very hard to dance your way 620 00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:10,580 out of well and then I'm just gonna tell 621 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:13,550 you this next thing because this is this 622 00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:16,370 is just happening just few days ago I 623 00:31:23,140 --> 00:31:19,870 found out about this thing and and 624 00:31:25,150 --> 00:31:23,150 incidentally I live in chakalaka Alabama 625 00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,160 and I you know all my neighbors they 626 00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:26,720 know our write books and all of what 627 00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:29,480 it's about but we don't talk about you 628 00:31:37,630 --> 00:31:33,620 know we talked about community things 629 00:31:39,850 --> 00:31:37,640 and yeah I don't I'm not the person who 630 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:39,860 talks about near-death experiences all 631 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:43,730 the time but I was so amazed about this 632 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:48,170 one that I told my friend so I thought 633 00:31:55,419 --> 00:31:51,710 the Faulkner's villain station about 634 00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:55,429 this and he said that it made the hairs 635 00:32:02,380 --> 00:31:59,330 on his arm stand top and Philip is you 636 00:32:12,130 --> 00:32:02,390 know Philip is a is a very grounded 637 00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,140 person and so basically and I can't be 638 00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:14,480 for coming on this one right now in 639 00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:16,910 terms of the details I and then I don't 640 00:32:23,049 --> 00:32:19,460 have permission from the parties 641 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,059 involved but this one case I knew off 642 00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:26,000 already form and me I mean it's just 643 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:30,670 absolutely impossible by medicine to 644 00:32:38,350 --> 00:32:34,850 comprehend that this guy lived and and 645 00:32:43,180 --> 00:32:38,360 just in this horrific situation lost his 646 00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:43,190 wife and kids as well and and yet you 647 00:32:49,330 --> 00:32:45,200 know just lived through this the past 648 00:32:53,409 --> 00:32:49,340 all odds but he was basically been doing 649 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:53,419 some reflecting about it and so he went 650 00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:54,970 to the 651 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:01,360 surgeons who who had 60-month and we 652 00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:04,300 talked to a surgeon about the situation 653 00:33:10,590 --> 00:33:08,440 and the surgeon kind of said well you 654 00:33:16,020 --> 00:33:10,600 know I've never told anybody this but 655 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:16,030 then he went on to tell this man that he 656 00:33:21,450 --> 00:33:17,860 knew that the man was going to live 657 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:21,460 because when he was operating the room 658 00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:26,170 quote he quote the room opened up into 659 00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:28,510 another dimension 660 00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:33,910 and he saw and talked with the wife of 661 00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:37,420 this guy he was working on who it had 662 00:33:42,990 --> 00:33:40,960 been killed in the accident and you see 663 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:43,000 things like this are just kidding dirt I 664 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:45,490 mean I am a nominalist in the sense that 665 00:33:58,860 --> 00:33:53,410 you know you've got to well I mean I 666 00:34:02,810 --> 00:33:58,870 think always the the rule is the Occam 667 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:02,820 rule kinda gets misstated really but 668 00:34:10,860 --> 00:34:05,770 yeah I mean it does come a point where 669 00:34:13,170 --> 00:34:10,870 as much as you want to simplify that you 670 00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:13,180 begin to feel kind of intellectually 671 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:17,760 dishonest see by putting some prosaic 672 00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:21,730 explanation to these things it I mean 673 00:34:27,390 --> 00:34:25,630 this is just so gosh awful beyond that 674 00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:27,400 you don't know what to say about it 675 00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:30,270 right you know it's amazing to me that 676 00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:34,390 35 years after your book were still 677 00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:37,510 taking seriously people like dr. Sam 678 00:34:40,740 --> 00:34:39,100 cornea who I'm sure as a hard-working 679 00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:40,750 I'm sure he's an extremely intelligent 680 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:43,390 guy but putting putting picks yep me 681 00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:45,970 well-meaning but really we're gonna put 682 00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:48,280 pictures above the bed and say I mean 683 00:34:55,290 --> 00:34:52,150 what are we trying to do here 35 years 684 00:34:59,340 --> 00:34:55,300 on how much human experience do we have 685 00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,350 to deny yeah yeah about that one in 686 00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:02,400 particular and connection with that 687 00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:06,550 study was that this could possibly prove 688 00:35:11,550 --> 00:35:08,380 life after death and 689 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:11,560 to me that was astonishing to read and 690 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:15,130 you know because I felt Plato pretty 691 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:18,640 much put the kibosh on that one 2300 692 00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:20,890 years ago when we you pointed out that 693 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:23,830 even if you could prove that something 694 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:25,690 leaves the body 695 00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:29,200 it doesn't mean that it would continue 696 00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:33,280 to exist after the yes that demolish 697 00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:35,680 well the other thing I hear you saying 698 00:35:41,580 --> 00:35:39,070 is that one if we look at the narratives 699 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:41,590 and then two if we take those narratives 700 00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:43,420 and we deconstruct them the way that 701 00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:45,790 you're talking about we get into 702 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,220 nonsense we get into time that no longer 703 00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:51,040 fits in our understanding of time we get 704 00:35:56,370 --> 00:35:52,960 into relationships you know the way we 705 00:35:57,900 --> 00:35:56,380 relate to the world in a way that no 706 00:36:00,750 --> 00:35:57,910 longer fits with our things so we're 707 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:00,760 kind of way out there as soon as we take 708 00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:03,460 that step it's a long way down and 709 00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:06,910 there's really no way back well or or 710 00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:10,000 it's a long way forward because you see 711 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:14,830 I think I think that precisely what we 712 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:18,370 need is to show conclusively that the 713 00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:21,490 notion of life after death is nonsense 714 00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:25,360 and to show exactly what kind of 715 00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:29,440 nonsense that it is because if you look 716 00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,700 at the history of rational inquiry we've 717 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:36,160 never really been deterred before by 718 00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:39,130 things being nonsensical I mean for 719 00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:43,390 example um when Galileo you know looked 720 00:36:49,530 --> 00:36:46,120 at the moon at AA big rock in Jupiter 721 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:49,540 and oh my god it's good satellites going 722 00:36:54,930 --> 00:36:52,810 around it not around the earth and and 723 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:54,940 you know then the Milky Way oh my god 724 00:36:59,220 --> 00:36:57,130 it's Mary it's a little teeny stars that 725 00:37:03,330 --> 00:36:59,230 have got to be much further away than 726 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,340 any crystal sphere well Danny got to 727 00:37:08,910 --> 00:37:06,640 saying well okay what the better idea is 728 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:08,920 that the earth along with other planets 729 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:12,160 goes around the Sun and seeing when 730 00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:15,250 people first heard that they didn't 731 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:19,150 object that it was false hmm what they 732 00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:22,210 objected was that it was unintel 733 00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:26,950 as nonsense yeah becuase you see what 734 00:37:32,339 --> 00:37:29,500 Galileo is saying is that the earth is 735 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:32,349 one of the heavenly bodies like Venus 736 00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:35,050 and Mars and Jupiter but that can't be 737 00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:39,280 because the earth is down here so you 738 00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:43,599 see we can't be deterred and accepting 739 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:45,390 something just because it's 740 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:47,890 unintelligible and that's kind of what I 741 00:37:53,849 --> 00:37:51,730 do in this you know this kind of logic 742 00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:53,859 is you can work out ways to push the 743 00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:55,990 question forward even when it's 744 00:38:00,839 --> 00:37:58,690 unintelligible interesting that's an 745 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:00,849 interesting way to put it let me put out 746 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:02,530 a very kind of prosaic question but I 747 00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:04,210 have to do it because I think I know 748 00:38:10,859 --> 00:38:08,020 your answer and I love your dr. MIDI do 749 00:38:15,839 --> 00:38:10,869 you believe in God no I absolutely do 750 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:15,849 not and and let me explain why usually 751 00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:18,130 the way that question is answer did you 752 00:38:27,089 --> 00:38:21,040 believe that God exists and what a one 753 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:27,099 point out is that usually the emphasis 754 00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:31,570 on the word exists I want 755 00:38:38,070 --> 00:38:35,680 I am fully well aware that any belief 756 00:38:43,170 --> 00:38:38,080 that I Raymond Moody could formulate 757 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:43,180 about God would be off base so what I 758 00:38:50,190 --> 00:38:46,810 say is I have a relationship with God 759 00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:50,200 and if that sounds evasive so because 760 00:38:56,940 --> 00:38:54,040 this is exactly how the way I look at it 761 00:39:01,020 --> 00:38:56,950 you know I am really an appearance 762 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:01,030 skeptic Alexes you may be able to figure 763 00:39:07,890 --> 00:39:05,170 out in the sense that to me it's a 764 00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:07,900 personal injury and insult to have to 765 00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:10,480 draw a conclusion about anything drives 766 00:39:19,290 --> 00:39:14,740 my wife crazy and all my friends but you 767 00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:19,300 know I'm hardly ever exactly wrong you 768 00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:21,280 know him said that the strongest 769 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:24,400 position is always the negative you said 770 00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:26,890 a really interesting word you have a 771 00:39:32,190 --> 00:39:29,830 relationship relationship I think is 772 00:39:34,349 --> 00:39:32,200 such a key part because it props up in 773 00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,359 this work that you've done you know you 774 00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:36,720 have a relationship with your pass 775 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:38,390 you ever relate these near-death 776 00:39:44,839 --> 00:39:41,520 experiencers have a relationship with 777 00:39:48,829 --> 00:39:44,849 that encounter you know what does this 778 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:48,839 mean when you say I can't know or I 779 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:52,170 can't I can't know God by definition but 780 00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:54,210 I can't have a relationship again it 781 00:39:59,839 --> 00:39:57,119 gets back to this holes in our logic how 782 00:40:03,710 --> 00:39:59,849 can we have a relationship that goes 783 00:40:07,309 --> 00:40:03,720 beyond this logic and knowing scientific 784 00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:07,319 part I have no idea you know I mean I 785 00:40:16,579 --> 00:40:10,500 really don't know how to rationalize it 786 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:16,589 but you know it's just a personal 787 00:40:22,430 --> 00:40:19,470 presence that's all I can say 788 00:40:24,740 --> 00:40:22,440 you know it's calming mystic you know in 789 00:40:26,780 --> 00:40:24,750 a way but maybe it is a mystical 790 00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:26,790 relationship all of it certainly nothing 791 00:40:33,799 --> 00:40:30,920 like yeah I mean I don't do any of the 792 00:40:36,890 --> 00:40:33,809 the chant I mean just nothing it's just 793 00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:36,900 this is a personal relationship that 794 00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:38,569 comes through under certain 795 00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:43,020 circumstances and I live with it but yet 796 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:45,270 this is that edge that we have to walk I 797 00:40:49,789 --> 00:40:47,490 mean it's both personal edge that we 798 00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:49,799 have to walk it's also the professional 799 00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:51,420 edge that we have to walk tell me a 800 00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:53,579 little bit about Elisabeth kubler-ross 801 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:55,470 though and then about this thing of 802 00:41:00,349 --> 00:40:57,530 flying too close to the fire because 803 00:41:03,140 --> 00:41:00,359 it's not just her I mean this comes up 804 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:03,150 over and over again that I'm glad you 805 00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,170 said not just her and and because Alex 806 00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,359 that gives me a good and I think you 807 00:41:13,609 --> 00:41:11,760 will my guess is that you will probably 808 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:13,619 at least see what I'm getting at here 809 00:41:22,789 --> 00:41:16,170 and this is even if you don't agree with 810 00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:22,799 it and that is that I think that I am 811 00:41:28,220 --> 00:41:25,190 probably the very best possible 812 00:41:30,410 --> 00:41:28,230 investigator to these kinds of things 813 00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:30,420 like near-death experiences and all like 814 00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:32,940 that because there's something very I 815 00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:36,180 think deep-seated in me that makes it 816 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:40,740 really impossible for me to come to an 817 00:41:49,789 --> 00:41:46,410 opinion on it and when I look at the 818 00:41:50,060 --> 00:41:49,799 people who are you know the kind of 819 00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:50,070 thing 820 00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:52,680 knowledged or anointed experts and the 821 00:42:00,880 --> 00:41:57,240 paranormal what I think attracts people 822 00:42:05,470 --> 00:42:00,890 like that to it is the narrative 823 00:42:09,860 --> 00:42:05,480 interest I mean these are let's face it 824 00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,870 absolutely riveting stories I mean I've 825 00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:11,280 heard thousands of near-death 826 00:42:16,610 --> 00:42:13,710 experiences and I can't wait to hear the 827 00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:16,620 next one this much I acknowledge let's 828 00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:19,680 just make this forgiving that these are 829 00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:24,270 fascinating stories and I think that a 830 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:27,060 certain kind of person who is drawn to 831 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:34,050 this and that their interest is totally 832 00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:37,770 based on the narratives I think that the 833 00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:41,760 same tendency of mind that draws them to 834 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:45,540 it also pretty much precludes that they 835 00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:50,450 can think rationally about it mm-hm and 836 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:52,740 whereas the person who has a 837 00:42:59,150 --> 00:42:56,850 clear-headed analytical thinker would 838 00:43:02,510 --> 00:42:59,160 see very clearly that some of these 839 00:43:07,010 --> 00:43:02,520 claims of parapsychology and so on or 840 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:07,020 just not even true or false but just you 841 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:11,310 know naming laughs really I have a lot 842 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:14,130 of empathy for the parapsychologist 843 00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:17,490 because I think a lot of their drive is 844 00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:20,460 reactionary because the materialist 845 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:25,500 are just bonkers I have on this show 846 00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:28,370 literally some of the world's leading 847 00:43:35,290 --> 00:43:31,260 neurosurgeons and you just confront them 848 00:43:37,340 --> 00:43:35,300 with basic data basic physics basic 849 00:43:40,070 --> 00:43:37,350 neurology like you're saying I mean 850 00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:40,080 simple stuff about how can a brain that 851 00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,270 we know medically is severely 852 00:43:46,580 --> 00:43:44,400 compromised in all these different 853 00:43:48,530 --> 00:43:46,590 situations how can we have you know and 854 00:43:50,780 --> 00:43:48,540 then talk about nonsense they they go 855 00:43:54,140 --> 00:43:50,790 into a different kind of nonsense yes 856 00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,150 Alice they do they do they do and I mean 857 00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:55,920 you're just absolutely right and not 858 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:00,000 only that to me it's just ridiculous for 859 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:02,850 a person with a medical degree to call 860 00:44:07,099 --> 00:44:03,720 themselves 861 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:07,109 scientists you can call yourself a 862 00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:09,090 scientist if you get your PhD in 863 00:44:19,700 --> 00:44:14,400 chemistry or or Physiology or physics or 864 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:19,710 geology but not if you know a man MD is 865 00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:21,810 a professional degree it doesn't make 866 00:44:27,830 --> 00:44:25,500 you a scientist but many people who have 867 00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:27,840 that degree tender you know they think 868 00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:30,140 that it callsigns and you know people 869 00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:32,310 professors in medical schools who are 870 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:36,470 real scientists have this constant 871 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:39,450 difficulty with that these clinicians 872 00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:41,130 who haven't been trained in the 873 00:44:48,290 --> 00:44:44,430 scientific method do these studies and 874 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:48,300 they just make obvious errors dr. moody 875 00:44:52,849 --> 00:44:50,490 it's been wonderful having you on tell 876 00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:52,859 us later it's been a great great 877 00:44:56,180 --> 00:44:54,630 pleasure it just sends us in so many 878 00:44:58,700 --> 00:44:56,190 different directions and gets my mind 879 00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:58,710 spinning and I love that driving forward 880 00:45:02,570 --> 00:45:00,960 tell us about some of the projects 881 00:45:05,089 --> 00:45:02,580 you're working on now and some of the 882 00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:05,099 things that you're up to well over the 883 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:09,119 course of my teaching career I developed 884 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:12,690 an incredible method for teaching 885 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:15,330 students four figures of speech which is 886 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:17,790 something necessary for any kid who 887 00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:19,530 studies literature's gotta have the 888 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:22,020 course than that and I've developed this 889 00:45:28,220 --> 00:45:26,010 just and this amazing system that makes 890 00:45:30,020 --> 00:45:28,230 it real easy for people or sits you know 891 00:45:33,609 --> 00:45:30,030 40 years in development I'm getting 892 00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:33,619 ready to publish that one and I am now 893 00:45:41,859 --> 00:45:37,440 teaching a course over the Internet 894 00:45:46,839 --> 00:45:41,869 Wow and it's about a ten part course and 895 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:47,990 Raymond 896 00:46:03,470 --> 00:45:59,900 ngel dot-com Oh at aol.com so the email 897 00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:03,480 is Raymond NDE at aol.com someone can 898 00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:04,980 send you an email and you'll send him 899 00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:06,900 information about absolutely I'll send 900 00:46:12,589 --> 00:46:08,880 it right to the producer who's doing 901 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:12,599 this and it's it's not already and it's 902 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:15,210 we've gotten wonderful comments from it 903 00:46:17,570 --> 00:46:17,130 what's the title of the course what's 904 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:17,580 the Bay 905 00:46:24,530 --> 00:46:20,490 you know something is Alex it's entitled 906 00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:24,540 a new way of thinking and it is not just 907 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:27,020 to talk about life after death it's 908 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:30,810 absolutely reformat the mind for 909 00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:33,930 thinking rationally about big questions 910 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:37,680 that heretofore have eluded reason Fanta 911 00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:39,870 well I'm signing up if no one else you 912 00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:41,310 have one subscriber right here I'm gonna 913 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:43,950 sign up for that so that that's that's 914 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:46,170 wonderful and books books coming out any 915 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:49,410 books coming out soon ah no my my new 916 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:50,850 book which you were kind enough to 917 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:53,610 mention the paranormal I'm having a lot 918 00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:56,010 of trouble a lot of fun with that now 919 00:47:00,890 --> 00:46:59,280 because that one is them as that is not 920 00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:00,900 something I would normally do write 921 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:02,910 about myself they asked me to do it and 922 00:47:08,930 --> 00:47:06,210 then it got to be like a an exercise and 923 00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:08,940 studying myself and I thought you know 924 00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:10,380 it's been years and years since I 925 00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:12,870 thought about myself and not you know I 926 00:47:17,540 --> 00:47:15,510 realized I'm a pretty weird character I 927 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:17,550 know about that but you're certainly an 928 00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:19,530 interesting character and make a very 929 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:22,440 fast reading fast pace book with so many 930 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:24,930 little turns and twists and anyone who's 931 00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:28,290 kept up-to-date on the the real culture 932 00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,390 change that we've gone through from your 933 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:32,160 research is going to be fascinated by 934 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:35,010 the backstories the numerous backstories 935 00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:37,290 that are found in the book so once again 936 00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:39,300 dr. moody thanks so much for joining us 937 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:41,910 today thank you Alex and sending send me 938 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:44,370 your address on that to that email 939 00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:46,890 address and I'll get you a copy of my 940 00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:49,560 manuscript and if you have time to read 941 00:47:55,070 --> 00:47:51,950 it I greatly appreciate your comments I 942 00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:55,080 look forward to it thanks again to dr. 943 00:47:58,490 --> 00:47:56,910 Raymond moody for joining me today on 944 00:48:00,380 --> 00:47:58,500 skeptic oh if you'd like more 945 00:48:02,450 --> 00:48:00,390 information about this show or any of 946 00:48:06,410 --> 00:48:02,460 our previous shows please visit the 947 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:06,420 Skeptical website it's at sk EP tik oh 948 00:48:09,410 --> 00:48:08,130 don't forget the K there and there 949 00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:09,420 you'll find links to all our previous 950 00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:11,640 shows an email and Facebook link to me 951 00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:13,590 and all sorts of other good stuff well 952 00:48:17,150 --> 00:48:15,390 there's any number of topics that we 953 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:17,160 could pursue on the forum about this 954 00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:19,050 show there's some questions that were 955 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:22,260 left unanswered really because dr. moody 956 00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:25,170 didn't choose to answer them or went off 957 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:27,660 in a different direction which is 958 00:48:31,410 --> 00:48:29,970 certainly his prerogative I mean I it's 959 00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:31,420 interesting to hear where he 960 00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:33,190 makes things but I did feel a little bit 961 00:48:37,950 --> 00:48:35,260 like I wish I could have pinned him down 962 00:48:40,770 --> 00:48:37,960 on a couple of areas or explored further 963 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:40,780 what he's really driving at particularly 964 00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:43,650 with some of his criticism of 965 00:48:48,660 --> 00:48:46,240 parapsychology and near-death experience 966 00:48:50,849 --> 00:48:48,670 research but maybe we'll just have to 967 00:48:52,890 --> 00:48:50,859 leave those for another interview 968 00:48:54,839 --> 00:48:52,900 nonetheless it is a very interesting 969 00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:54,849 dialogue and I hope you have some 970 00:49:00,059 --> 00:48:57,220 thoughts in questions about it that you 971 00:49:01,799 --> 00:49:00,069 would like to share with us on the forum 972 00:49:02,339 --> 00:49:01,809 well that's going to do it for this 973 00:49:04,410 --> 00:49:02,349 episode 974 00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:04,420 I have several interesting shows coming 975 00:49:08,970 --> 00:49:06,520 up please stick with me for all of that 976 00:49:10,770 --> 00:49:08,980 please continue to write and blog about 977 00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:10,780 skeptic Oh tell your friends about 978 00:49:16,380 --> 00:49:13,390 skeptic oh let's grow our small 979 00:49:20,039 --> 00:49:16,390 community here of interested inquires